I recently had the privilege of interviewing Cleopatra Bertelsen as my first of a series of interviews with current cohorts, or graduates of the NW Creative & Expressive Arts Professional Training Program. Here is what I learned from this vibrant, compassionate force in the field.
By Suzan Alparslan
Suzan: First I’d like to just get a little background about you; where you’re from, what drew you into your practice, this work, and the program?
Cleopatra: I am an LMHC and I got my masters in clinical mental health and drama therapy from Antioch University Seattle. I was taught by lots of art therapists so already I was founded on this sense of art and creativity as a way of healing. Through my master’s and my internship, I got to work with so many different people. I ran many different groups and worked with individuals. I feel so grateful to do any kind of therapeutic work, especially with creativity. It is such a powerful way for an individual to be seen; to move, and to express. So, I was already so passionate about it. I have a bachelor’s degree in theatre.
I felt I needed to use my voice, but I truly didn’t know where that would lead me. Then I graduated and started working in community mental health. I did a drama therapy group for over two years with people with severe mental illness and it was just so meaningful. I also did a creative expression group. It is so powerful to see people engage, use their voice, and be witnessed in a way that is so different than just talking to somebody.
Clients would create stories about themselves, and they would sing songs and perform for other people in the program, their providers, and clinicians, and just be witnessed. It was just so amazing.
I really felt that my identity is as an Expressive Arts Therapist, and not just a drama therapist, even though that (drama therapy) was part of it. Even in the drama therapy group, every single person wanted to sing. They wanted to do music. They were already saying, “I am more than one modality. My expression comes through multiple ways, in me.” So, this really feels like a strong part of my identity.
Suzan: So, it has organically unfolded.
Cleopatra: Yes. And I now have a private practice where I see individual clients and do creative arts modalities with them through their therapeutic process. It’s really founded in people looking at the intersections of their identity, and empowerment. It’s the best! I mean, it is such a gift to be able to be with people and witness their empowerment.
Suzan: I’m glad that we did the interview on Zoom instead of just sending you some questions because I can tell that your whole being lights up. It’s clear this is your purpose and your calling.
Cleopatra: That feels very, very true. It does feel like a calling. I think the healing arts, in general…like, massage and Reiki were my openings to that. And I feel like there’s still more that I don’t know and that this is the path. There’s so much to learn. I also love learning. Any chance I have to grow, I want.
Suzan: When and how did you realize you wanted to pursue training in expressive arts?
Cleopatra: When I started my master’s, I had wanted to be a counselor and then I saw (that there was) Drama Therapy. I didn’t even know that existed or what that meant. But I had a background in theatre, and I loved it. I think there was an “ah-ha” that ‘This can happen? I can put these worlds together?!’
Then I met so many art therapists and teachers that are art therapists and I thought, ‘This feels right.’ And going through the program, I realized that I don’t (just) fit into one modality. I had heard of expressive arts being multi-modal. And since then, everything I’ve been practicing out in the world with clients has not just been one single thing. It’s always more than one modality that someone wants to express through, move through, or be seen through.
Bobbi Kidder was my instructor/mentor in the drama therapy program and she worked with Sibel and teaches at the Northwest Creative & Expressive Arts Institute. She had been talking about it years ago when it first started in 2015. Then, this year I just felt I needed something more. It was one of those things that just feels right before trying it. And then doing it, I just know—this is it.
Suzan: Did you look at any other programs, when considering expressive arts, and if so, what made this one stand out?
Cleopatra: I didn’t look at any other programs. I’m always trying to learn, and I think something just happened when this email came through. I thought I’m going to apply to this. I really do believe in synchronicities. Maybe it was just that need for community in creativity, in creative arts in a time when so many people—everyone I know—was suffering, on some level. Hearing people saying things they’re struggling with and thinking, I’m struggling with that, too.
Suzan: Because you were going through it, too. I would think that, especially during something that is universal that we’re all going through, you might ask how you can be there for your clients, and yourself in a way that’s invigorating. I would think all these unforeseen circumstances would make you reassess what you’re trying to do as a therapist at this time when the world is upside-down.
Cleopatra: Totally. And that piece you touched on that I didn’t mention is so important. Having that creative outlet for myself is so healing. That alone allows me to show up for others because I’ve released something, I’ve moved something, I’ve gained a mirror, some insight, or some perspective. Maybe it was just lodged in the overstuffed attic of my brain. I get to unpack one box and dust it off a little bit, making just a little bit of space that I can offer somebody else.
Suzan: So, if there were one word you could use to describe your experience in the program what would it be and why? And, if you need more than one word, I’ll give you that license. (Chuckles)
Cleopatra: Thank you. I appreciate that. I feel like the words that came to mind were; expansive, and transformative, but it wasn’t a BAM! transformation, it’s subtle. There have been many moments that have been really moving, or cathartic. Overall, being able to continue creating, and being vulnerable, even when that feels uncomfortable. There is something inherently uncomfortable about creating because it’s something that came from me. Here it is. And, with that, I think the instructors hold such loving space. They’re so kind and so loving. I feel like they really understand and are passionate about what they’re teaching and at the same time show so much humanity, and humility. I don’t think that’s something I’ve always found. When people have the expertise, that can also come with ego. But I feel like not only are we being guided and held, but we’re also part of the community. That has been really, meaningful.
I think that transformation piece of being able to create so much and then witness others making and creating, then taking that to my clients and offering them whatever I’m learning has been amazing. I had a huge breakthrough with a client with their emotional self which can be so overwhelming to them. They just did a scribble—scribble about their feelings. Just a scribble. It didn’t have to look like anything, and I swear that moved so much for them and they continued to do it regularly. I don’t know if this is tied to it, or not, but I’m sure, on some level, now they’re making art on their own. They’re just making art.
Suzan: I’m sure it’s liberating. And, probably, what you bring to it from the way you’re guided in the training, and your own nature, I’m sure, is just creating a safe space and making it okay for them to create and it’s about the process, rather than the result, or the product of it.
Cleopatra: Yeah, that’s a wonderful thing, too. I always will tell people, I’m not going to comment on your art. I’m not going to qualify it and say it’s this, or it’s beautiful, or not. But I will ask you, tell me about that? What does that mean? How’d that feel? What is this color? Does that color feel like something? I’ll ask them about their experience. And I think that in and of itself is really liberating. And maybe sometimes confining because sometimes people are taught to ask, Is it good? And that can be a growth edge too. It’s your expression. It’s not good, or bad. It’s part of you.
I went to two different schools for theatre. Some of it was amazing. I’m so grateful for the technique. There were also places where I found myself caught in deep self-judgment, which can turn into self-loathing and comparing yourself to unrealistic expectations that are internally created. Maybe some of it is externally supported, too, but (all of) that takes away that initial liberation that art offers and makes it really confining.
Suzan: You’ve mentioned that you had some breakthroughs with clients that you’ve brought the work to. Is there anything you want to add to how your work has been impacted since the Expressive Arts training?
Cleopatra: I will say that I think it’s given me a steady stream of opportunities to try out, and multiple ways to begin something to help support a client move. I have clients that are more geared toward music, or towards something visual so, it’s just really nice to offer many different things to different people. I think that’s where it’s been really helpful. And I think that I find myself throwing things out there in the moment that I don’t pre-plan, which is often true of me, anyway. But that I have something to offer and people are just so willing, most of the time, to try it on. And, if they’re not, they’re empowered enough to say, No. I don’t want to do that, which I support too.
Suzan: What was one unexpected benefit that you’ve experienced from the training? How has it impacted your life?
Cleopatra: The most unexpected experience. I feel like I’m going to cry. But just how much more life I have to offer because I felt so stuck during the pandemic and being able to create has offered me so much more life-force to be in the world and move so much. So, that was unexpected. I think I just stopped thinking about feeling energized and hopeful for a while so to be able to able to see a bunch of people making, and being, and learning, and for myself to be able to make so many things and move so much, it offered me so much life. I feel like I have so much more life. That is a gift.
Suzan: That’s wonderful. Last question. Is there anything else you’d like to share with this community or prospective students?
Cleopatra: What I would want to share with prospective students who are interested, or uncertain, is come try a workshop. Come allow yourself not only to be held by this work and the instructors, but also to allow yourself to see how you feel, and imagine that in supporting other people to feel that way. If prospective students have any inkling to try and bridge the gap between creativity and healing, then I feel there is a strong potential that this work is for them. That’s what I would say.
Suzan: Thank you so much, Cleopatra.
Suzan Alparslan, MFA, has been a bodywork practitioner for nearly three decades in New York and Los Angeles. She holds a BA in Dance Choreography from Bard College and an MFA in Poetry from Antioch University, LA. She has published poems in several literary journals and is currently working on a collection of poems. She was a mentor for many years with LA-based writegirl.org. Suzan spends time painting, drawing, and living with her fiancé, his 13-year-old daughter, two cats, and a dog. She also happens to be the life-long, proud little sister of NW Creative & Expressive Arts Therapy founder, Sibel Alparslan Golden.
This interview has been edited for clarity.
